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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Eridani Empire: not so handicapped as you thought.

June 16, 2012, 11:47 am
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by lofung_hk

Eridani Empire is easily viewed as handicapped or hard race to play as it has two discs taken away. i doubted it as i enjoy winning the game epically while i see people right here on bgg saying eridani is handicapped, i tried it out a few times, managed to win a few games with quite a solid start in my honest opinion - i am just not good at making decisions late game and somehow throw away games easily.

Here are some of my thoughts.

Before-game: do not pick the race early. Dun worry, no one will pick your race early as they are still 'somewhat handicapped' and hard to play with. They situationally do really well. Pick them if
1. the last pick or
2. the second last when hydran is picked (and see below)
3. pick it when you are just between humans/mechanema/orion meaning that you just have to fight.
Pay attention if advanced robotics is available (or 2 are available when there is a hydran as they are somewhat likely to take it early). Eridani would a nice pick as you are likely to get it turn 2. Thanks and due to the draft system, you are likely to make first passes if you go first because you picked last or almost.

In the marco-sense: with 3 techs, eridani is definitely a rush race. Encounter aliens early for bonus. You should always align hexes towards some other SimCity players if available so in case the draws go bad that it isn't really useful, you can still use it as a step stone to claim his hexes.

I would aim for 4 mineral productions in turn 1 although unlikely, it doesn’t really hurt to trade it with 3 money. Explore sector 3 as there are 8 hexes i could use it for minerals. 2 hexes with discovery tiles ONLY but you still won’t dismiss it. If aliens hex is drawn, still accept it as you can always come back next turn. This would leave you 14 out of 18 'useful' hexes.

For actions below -13, you are effectively trading money for minerals with 3:1 or rates below, effectively equally better off/worse off with what you are allowed in this race.

Alternatively, sector 2 is also considerable with 3 mineral hexes and 2 purely discovery tiles. 3 aliens are also here which when you draw it you could leave it alone. But after all, the goal is to have 8 minerals by turn 2 with least trade. Hence discovering sector 2 really depends on how the deck is drawn by others.

One science early is also handy where you can exactly get a disc with no trades at turn 2 if it is available.

For sector 1, it is quite undesirable as it only has two 2 out of 8 mineral placable planets. While the ancients are also good, they are abundant (1/2 chance) and hence not so urgent.

While attacking with gauss shield equipped interceptor and cruiser turn 1 is do-able, i do not like the idea as it is quite unlikely to sustain mineral production as i am likely to lose the interceptor and burn down money.

Now for turn 2. Discover sector 1 depending on how much alien left in the deck. In my opinion, eridani do not really need science early and advanced mineral is just not in fit with advanced mining due to starting hex, i tend to discard 102 and 107 accepting all others. In case the odds are bad in multiplayer settings, go for sector 2. Do not worry about double ancients. Build a dreadnought with gauss shield and plasma cannon and you have a mighty 80% win rate. If you still feel unsafe, send the interceptor as kamikaze and you have a 90% win rate as long as you think that is just not useful anymore.

That’s all i really want to say as it really varies after turn 2. Keep on discovering sector 2 and 1 and destroy everything in your way. You do not really need friends mid game. If you manage to make an ally early, feel free to become a traitor early so that someone can pick that away from you. Eridani only has 4 spaces for reputations, dun waste it for ambassadors. Be confident with your early dreadnought and harass aggressively. Hey, this is a dead empire, you have nothing to lose! But likely i would aim for GCD whenever possible. Harass your (SimCity) neighbors when you just can’t go for the center.

feel free to add points or challenge, if eclipse manage to make it #5, i dun think that the developers would 'carelessly' put a highly unplayable race in it..

BTW, do not forget about the drive! Yes, it sucks early. But in the late game it might be useful if you decide to do the pinning strategy You have the little energy bonus to do it.

P.S. feel free to point out careless mistakes or logic flaws. I am quite careless, that's why you see millions of edits below. Sorry for my poor English as it is my second language and I am an internet freak
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: So what strategies & races are winning your games?

June 18, 2012, 2:43 am
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by MangaFox

I'm interested in seeing how the strategic landscape of Eclipse has developed over time. Here are the strat+race combos that were winning our games of Eclipse before I left for china a few months back:

Hydran Heavy Research - Basically, the hydran player turtles early and mid game, building a tech foundation. By late game they can counter build any ship you have and either turtle in safety or go aggressive for combat VP. I've seen a player fill out all three research tracks (or close to it) with the I ring double research system. That's a bunch of points. If your neighbor is hydran and they pull the double research I or II, attack them IMMEDIATELY, you can't afford to wait!

Planta Land Grab - Standard Planta strategy of extreme expansion. With enough table-talk/diplomacy the planta player may not need to fight much. Don't let new players sit next to the Planta guy!

What's been winning games at your table?
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Are Planta Overpowered?

June 26, 2012, 4:57 am
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by SnowRavenX

In our last 2 games, Planta has become ridiculously powerful and in both games a massive attack by all players against them tried to stop them from winning. It only succeeded in one of the games (they won the other).

Planta gets such a huge advantage in their exploration that they simply find more discovery tokens than anyone else (and therefore have a much better chance of finding the best ones). In both games, Planta discovered Shard Hull (put on Cruisers) and bought Antimatter Cannon (and put on everything due to extra power sources).

With great guaranteed ship upgrades from discovery tokens, the extra VP per influence token, and the turtle strategy, are they overpowered? If not, what is the strategy to defeat them?
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: VP Nuances

June 29, 2012, 8:33 am
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by BuckShot Bill

About to play my first game tomorrow, most likely 3P (so no diplomacy) with just Terran factions, and have read through several threads on strategy, and have a couple of questions on the nature of scoring.

Where do you score the most VPs in the average game? Is it normally through gaining influence, reputation, tech, monoliths?

Do you specialize in a certain type and then supplement with other ways of scoring, or do you need to be fully balanced?

Do you gain points slowly throughout the game or is there a VP bonanza in the last few rounds? (or does this vary depending on the game?)

Thanks!




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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Always little money!!!

July 9, 2012, 9:25 am
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by bodybuilder

I love this game, his mechanics, his theme, but in our races we do too many explorations, and after some turn we have little money and we can only do 2 or 3 actions because nobody wants to use influence and leaving his hexagons..then in 2p games rarely fights..
I know we are playing the wrong way, can you give me some tips for more fun?
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: initiative

July 11, 2012, 6:45 am
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by bodybuilder

ships with similar power, worth attack if I have less initative than opponent? or is better to increase my initiative before attack, and meantime I wait him?
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: I need help!!

July 11, 2012, 5:20 pm
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by bodybuilder

I apologize in advance if I'm writing so much, too much about this game but I love him so much and I'm sick to continue to lose.

yet another 2p game tonight, my opponent goes first and takes the double hull

for the rest of the game the double hull is no longer come out!! bad luck!!

we both had plasma cannons, and my opponent explored towards me to attack, (having a double hull, he was strong)


I did scans with 3-4 planets orange, but then he came to fuck around, I managed only to retain a hexagon with 2 starbases

I never had a chance to recover, he stole my hexagons and I lost resources so I could not build ships or buy technologies

what I should do? explore in order to block access to my opponent (for example, by closing the whormholes that he was creating to attack)? however, so there would be no interaction in the whole game!

please help me understand where I'm wrong, before I was turtled, now I attack too soon, I can not understand when I must do something and when the othercry
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Discard hex

July 12, 2012, 7:31 am
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Influence Action

July 12, 2012, 11:19 am
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by ikesteroma

I've played two games now, and I don't think I remember a single player ever taking the influence action once. It seems to me that the only practical reason for taking the influence action is to refresh your colony ships. Otherwise, if you need to remove your influence tokens from lousy hexes, you simply run yourself into bankruptcy allowing you to essentially do the same thing for free.

Am I missing anything?
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: depending on what you choose to play a game offensive or defensive?

July 14, 2012, 4:21 pm
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by bodybuilder

I think that the production of materials is the key: if I produce many materials, I can build monoliths and then do a more defensive game. might be right?

other question: do you build often your ships on hexagons that you find out? (in our games, we explore a lot, leaving unattended the hexagons, and then build ships only when needed)
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Possible solution to Missles...Interceptors!?

July 15, 2012, 6:02 am
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by GreyArcher

In a game of eclipse (everyone Terran) I played recently I had taken the galactic center early (turn 4) with a very lucky interceptor rush. (Weapons: one ion cannon and one ion turret each) An opponent then prepared to invade with plasma missles and improved initiative (not much hull in any ship). After a brief buildup he intended to send in his fleet of missle cruisers in one wave, with the remaining cannon ships following in the second. After the missle ships came in, I countered by sending out a counterwave of 2 interceptors and one cruiser to pin his remaining ships in his territory. He turned green when he realised that if I won that battle that his advance fleet of cruisers would be wiped out when they couldn't flee. I was one damage point short of succeeding. (Which was too bad because his cruisers destroyed everything but one starbase, which would have wiped them out if they had had nowhere to run to.)

So I guess my question is, has anyone else had any luck with using lots of ships to do pinning counterstrikes to prevent retreat (while starbases with lots of hull and one cannon play defense) as a way of countering hit and run missle attacks? (So far most of the discussion I've seen only focused on surviving the missle barrage with improved hull.)
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: 4 propositions: 3er meta game, nerving missiles make hydrans OP and overpowered hulls

July 15, 2012, 10:23 am
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by lofung_hk

I had these thinkings in my mind for extended period of time but I am not confident to speak it out loud. Although i play roughly 2-5 games every week depending on the number of players i come across, I realize that I will not have enough sample size to confirm it. Hence I am posting here after some 'testing' and look backs. I am grateful if you give me ideas or the phenomena in your group.

proposition #1. 3er game outcomes mainly depends on what the group picks.
(a)if 2 players choose a simcity race and the other military, two simcityers are likely to win
(b)if 2 players choose to military and the last one to simicity, the simcity guy is highly likely to lose.
(c)if all players go simcity or military, no conclusion.

SimCity races are: hydrans, dracos, plantas and to some certain extend turtle mechanemas
Military races are: eridani, orions and to some certain extend offensive mechanemas and humans.
These classification is discussible but the main point is simcity or military.

The logic behind is simple. for (a), a military race is likely to kill someONE. So if one simcity player is killed, the other one will be let to boom and he will be matchable and likely out-marco the military player. No, the military is highly unlikely to kill them both at the same time or one after another except with some extreme luck.

For (b), obvious. the juggernauts will divide the weaker, even they do not attack it explicitly but do virtual pinning and threating.

proposition #2: nerving the missiles makes science player stronger. particularly hydrans. The more your nerf, the more problematic they are. To some certain extend orions also.

Forget about Eridani.

Again it is simple. the popular variant that requires the missile with N energy is the same. Every weapon now requires energy. Energy requires science. And hence.

I would like to invite all those who play a variant on misslies it out. Particularly

(1) those who apply a missiles variant requiring it more energy
(2) those who play in a group with misslies variants but do not believe that it is overpowered at all.

My honest opinion is: missiles are good. They are a good catalyst to enlarge the lead but nowhere near IMBAlance.

proposition #3: the best techs in the game are actually improved hulls, advanced robotics and quantum grid. Missiles WITH/or +3 computer is only tier 2.

While the two hockey pucks are obvious, obviously unstoppable except you (hostilely) buy it before someone, improved hulls justifications are the follows:

1.It is cheap. 3/4 science
2.It voids all ion cannons. Do not tell me that you have problem massing hulls
3.It makes all plasma cannons ‘on par’. Quotations are put because they require energy. Hulls do not.
4.It is extremely effective against missiles itself. Most cruisers, dreads and starbases will have at least one hull. In case of mass missiles. Just put 2 more hulls or even fill all spaces with hulls.
5.In case someone get missiles with +2/3 computers, you have 2 options. Go for wormholes or shields while wormhole is a better choice.
6. Get antiwallofhull cannons, the player loses. Unplug the hull for the win.

proposition (or corollary soon) #4: improved hulls are imbalanced in games with missiles nerves.

Obvious. #2 and #3.

Discuss and data. Prove or disprove. Will check spellings and grammar again when I have time. Tired now after 4 games. I do not know if it is in the correct category or not. Move the thread when deemed necessary.
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Odds Estimation, Rules of Thumb -rambling-

July 18, 2012, 4:39 pm
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by Quirky1

So I haven't seen what kind of rules of thumbs people use for calculating odds on the fly before a battle or when they are adding that last ship to one of two fairly even combats.

I go by this rather simple formula:
Number of ships x number of cannons x ToHIt+1 x HitsTaken

Basis for ship design is that 3 cannons and no computer is equal to 1 cannon and two +1 computers. But 2 cannons and one +1 computer is better than both. The reason is that 3x1 and 1x3 are equal, but 2x2 are one more. In this trivial example every ship has an built in 1 in 6 chance to hit which gives us the first example 3 weapon dice and 1 in 6 chance to hit, 3x1 = 3. In the second example we have a total of 3 in 6 chance to hit, but only have one weapon die and that also gives us 1x3 = 3.

This is not exact of course. :-) But for a rule of thumb, load up on one more weapon part than computer bonuses.

Next step is to check out the shield situation on the enemy. Here one must remeber that if the enemy has two ship designs with different shielding the better shielded ship will get all the 6s and the easier to hit ship the bad to hit die, so it will not be as hard to hit them as one would expect. But we ignore that for now.

The better shields an enemy have, the more computers you should have to reach the sweet spot of 2x2 in the above example.

Next step is to compare number of hits it will take to kill you. If the enemy has mostly plasma weapons and your ship has 3 HP then you take 2 hits to kill, that is you take your points times 2. If you double your survival you will fire twice as many shots and be twice as effective on average.

You add the score of all your ships and then compare it to the enemy fleet score (this is where your weapon types comes in and your shields, they make the enemy score lower.)

A simple example:

3 interceptors with +1 computers and Ion Cannons vs 2 ancients.

Interceptors:
3 x 1 (IC) x 2 (ToHit on 2 in 6) x 1 (can take one hit only) = 6 power.

Ancients:
2 x 2 (IC) x 2 (ToHIt) x 2 (can take an extra hit) = 16.

In short, that is a loosing fight.
What can we do to make it work?
We can begin by checking differnt upgrades:
-1 shield instead of computer:
Interceptors: 3 x 1 x 1 x 1 = 3
Ancients: 2 x 2 x 1 x 2 = 8
The same odds.

+2 computer instead of +1:
Interceptors: 3 x 1 x 3 x 1 = 9 a 50% increase in power, seems correct.

IH instead of computer:
Interceptor: 3 x 1 x 1 x 3 = 9 a 50% increase as well.

Two Ion Cannons and no computer:
Interceptors: 3 x 2 x 1 x1 = 6 Same as before.

Plasma Cannon and a +1 computer:
Changes Ancients to 2 x 2 x 2 x 1 = 8 Same as shields, but no need to lower our own score since we have the power.

Plasma cannon and an IH:
Interceptor: 3 x 1 x 1 x 3 = 9
Ancients: 2 x 2 x 2 x 1 = 8

So the best upgrades against ancients (without increasing the source) seems to be:
Plasma cannons and IH. No suprise there.

When a fight is as close as the one above, initiative comes in. Having initiative is an advantage that is greatest in quick battles:

Example:
Two designs with the following values:
1 (ship) x (1 cannon) x 5 (ToHit) x 1 (hits it can take) = 5
against
1 (ship) x (1 cannon) x 1 (ToHit) x 5 (hits) = 5

If two ships of the first design met, it would be increadibly important to win the initiative, since the fight will most likely only be one round long.

The second ship type is as powerfull but initiative is of lesser importance since the fight will most likely be 30 rounds long

Mixing glass cannon ships with empty Hulks of hull, is not a good idea since the enemy will target the glass cannons first. Try to keep them about equal so that no ship is an extra tempting target.

So back to initiative. If the power is close and the fight will be short and bloody, initiative can be all important, but usually it is just a tie breaker.

The same goes for ship size. If one side only has one ship that is a bigg advantage since that side will fire all weapons to the end. While a bunch of interceptors will gradually decline in fire power as they get decimated in round after round in a close fight.

Again, something to take into consideration when 4 interceptors goes after a Dreadnaught.

When it comes to real odds I usually see it like this:
If I have 2:1 in power I will most likely win more often than 2:1, probably closer to 1:3 in casualties and wins. If I have 4:1 in power it will most likely be 1:10 in casualties and win rate.
If I have X:1 it will be 1+2+3+4..+x : 1 in casualties.

Overkill keeps your fleet going.

So a final example:
8 interceptors IC and 3HP. 2 Dreadnaughts 2IC, +1, 7HP.
Vs.
4 cruisers 2PM, +2 and 2HP.

8x1x1x2=16 2x2x2x4=16 Tot. 32 power.
4x2x3x2=48 Tot. 48.

My guess would be that the cruisers win, but take heavy casualties since they only have about 3:2 odds.

Initiative will most likely not come into effect since the first player don't have glass cannons, but it might save a cruiser from death if the cruisers have initiative.
Number wise both sides have several ships so that will not be a problem. The Dreadnaughts are not an extra juicy targets either since they have as good defense as the smaller ship compared to their fire power.

Another way of doing this would be to calculate turns it should take to kill the enemy.
8 interceptors that do 1 damage every six rounds and two dreads that do 4 damage every 6 rounds.
They need to do 8 damage and that will take them about 4 rounds.

The 4 cruisers do about 12 damage every 6 rounds.
They need to do 38 damage and that will take them almost 5 rounds.

This method makes it even closer and an advantage to the first fleet. And here initiative would be important as well as targeting, Dreads or interceptors.

Do you guys have any other rules of thumbs?

I am hoping there is something like:
Interceptors 1 pnt
Cruisers 2 pnt
Starbases 3 pnt
Dreads 4 pnt

+50% for every extra tech that has been upgraded properly.
If equal score initiative should win out.



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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Need for racial benchmarks?

July 23, 2012, 12:51 pm
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by Quirky1

I would like a table that I could look at and quickly estimate if a player is doing well or not compared to some generalized benchmarks on a turn per turn basis.

DISCLAIMER:
Yeah, yeah, I know all the limitation of such a system, and yes I do know that every game is different and it is all about the diplomatic or macro situation or you are not in need of such a crutch since you have seen it all before. This question is for beginners and for my own satisfaction so I can see that I do make the right estimations.

We assume a six man game, we assume everyone is playing fairly well and that no one gets completely eliminated, but military tactics actually do yield an extra system here and there at some cost to their military. And that turtle races do spend some materials for their fleet in order not to get attacked.

The questions should be: How am I doing? You look at the table, check your race, the turn number and get an answer like this (just an example and not taken from any real game):

Human Turn 5: 10/10/10, 6 techs, Fleet cost 27 pnts, 5 systems.

If I have 15/6/12, 4 techs, fleet size 12 pnts and 4 systems I can start to ask my self questions like;

Do I have need of that much economy, is it part of my strategy?
My 4 techs are they extra good techs for my strategy or do I have a lot of science in my stock?
Why is my fleet so small, am I really that safe or have been blessed with peaceful neighbours?
My 4 systems will they really be enough to have a winning score in the end or do I have to expand, maybe my systems are extra good or have Orbitals, etc?

One could set this up based on strategy instead of race, but races differ so much at the start, so maybe one should have the different races and then 3 humans with different strategies?

Turn 9 should be a "standard" winning score for that race/strategy in a very even game, in short a competitive score.

If Planta has 6, 8 or 10 systems how dangerous are they? The Hydrans have 12 techs turn 6 is that average or very good?

Are there any one that have some rough estimates based on a few average but close games? OR maybe the expertise to create a table on the fly that we can adjust together?
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Can you win without fighting?

July 23, 2012, 2:19 pm
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by colossus1919

I'm a long time gamer but played with my wife and oldest two who are just starting out. We just finished our first game and an after the fact question came up.

To sum up; We played four players, all humans, Black attacking some ancients in the first five or six rounds, Red attacking some ancients and the GCDS, White researching and exploring until ALL of her money population cubes were out on hexes, and Green exploring and researching. Black and White had some big fights with Red in turn eight and nine (in which Red did not come out of happy at all) but Green stood by and watched the show.

The results:
Black-31
White-25
Red-24
Green-13

So the question came up; Can you win without fighting, whether it be ancients or other players, and if so how?

I'm sure once I play more I may come up with some ideas but couldn't when I was asked.
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Grey Planet Hopping through Tactical Bankruptcy without using actions

July 24, 2012, 10:38 am
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by flying_neko

Please check me on my understanding of the "Grey Planet Hopping" tactic. I have read about it elsewhere but it wasn't specified in detail, so I had to reconstruct it on my own.

Using a Move action, I have previously sent one or more Ships in a hex containing a Grey Planet or an Orbital.

1) At the end of each combat phase in which no Influence Discs of mine are on the hex, I place an Influence Disc on this hex (following the "INFLUENCING HEXES" rule on page 21).

2) At the beginning of the Upkeep phase, I place one cube from a track of my choice to the Grey Planet, using an available Colony Ship.

3) Later during the Upkeep phase, I use Bankruptcy to take back the influence disc and return the Population Cube I have placed on step (2) on a different track.

I seem to have achieved swapping a cube from a track to another track using no action at all, just an idle Ship in the hex and an available Colony Ship. The hex hasn't got an Influence Disc anymore, so the cycle can be repeated on all rounds.

Since the production of the tracks is not linear, this can even boost total production for a race. In an extreme example, instead of producing 12 Money (6 cubes) and 10 Materials (5 cubes) one could produce 28 Money (11 cubes) and 2 Materials (0 cubes).

The strategy seems to be particularly good for Terrans, who can trade back in the resource they have depleted: the additional 28-12=16 money can become exactly the 8 "missing" materials, or 8 Science, or stay 16 money for extra actions. Getting to this point might require two Grey Planets and/or Orbitals, but it seems possible.

Is this legal? Is this intended by the game creators? Or is this an "exploit"?

The two strategies of "Tactical Bankruptcy" and "Grey Planet Hopping" seem to me to be intended, implied, but not explicitly mentioned devil. Same goes with the "Virtual Fleet" one. Fascinating game.
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Not another PM are OP thread

July 31, 2012, 11:08 am
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by Quirky1


Please, please, please... do not derail this thread into yet another discussion about PM being overpowered, broken or perfectly balanced.

This is a thread about how to use them to their best advantage. If you think they are OP, think how you could make them more so with a good strategy. If you think they are balanced how can we use them instead of focusing how to counter them.

I would also prefer to keep the discussion to a pre meditated PM strategy and not something you jump to when all else failed or you have already won the game and want to rub it in.

What is the over all cost compared to other similar attack or turtle defense fleets - compare attack fleets to other attack fleets and defense builds to other defense builds? Are they better for early bullying, ancient fighting or late game to grab that extra system or bust or help defend a starbase hardpoint?

So a few assumptions before we begin:

- Plasma Missiles can be used as written.
- Plasma Missiles are not considered OP by the other players, so they won't go above and beyond to stop you or gang up on you preemptively.
- The other players do know how to use available means to counter a PM threat.
- The main comparison should be with other strategies that uses military force in one way or another, and if PM do a better or worse job at it.

So how should one use Plasma Missiles in a military strategy or as part of a turtling strategy? When should one grab the tech, are other tech a higher priority? Which races are an extra good fit for PM ship parts, etc?

I know this will be hard, but try to leave the PM are balanced/overpowered discussion out of this.

I want to learn the full potential of PM. When and how should they be used. Common pitfalls with using them, like building too many ships and forget about VP, building an attack fleet and never really use it, getting overrun by interceptors in the end game, sending too strong a signal that you are going to attack, spreading out too fast, people not wanting to trade and help you get an access point to them, too slow to take GCDS compared to other ship designs, Upgrade gap when you turn a working ship into a hybrid before it is fully a PM ship compared to other ship designs that can be partially upgraded and fight well during that time, etc.

Most questions are generic for other military strategies as well, so try to differentiate what makes PM better or worse compared to other weapon designs.

So if you had to (or wanted to) focus on a strategy with PM as a central component, how would you go about it? What would you do, when would you do it and what would you look out for?





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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: how many actions per turn?

August 1, 2012, 2:56 pm
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by bodybuilder

a bit of time I'm losing my games because I do too many actions and then are forced to leave hexagons to be able to pay

how many action you do, on average, every turn?

usually in mid-game, I could only pay 2 or 3 actions, but I keep playing, knowing then having to leave some hexagon. I do well?
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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Situational Awareness, Too Many Lack It: Somehow VP counting.

August 4, 2012, 8:34 am
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by lofung_hk

Yes, VP counting.

You do not only count VP at the end of the game but start to pay close attention to the situation since the very beginning of the game.

Spectating other groups in real life and on vessel, I very often see situations like this. All numbers are arbitrary. In clockwise order and seating, all are playing aliens:

Black (Orions)
Green (Planta)
Yellow (Draco)
Blue (Hydrans)

It is turn 5 and black has just occupied the center after 3 successive alien hunts. He lost a dreadnought because of some extreme bad luck and just barely win with another dreadnought. He threw everything in so that he only has $0, 8 science and 12 material . All green, yellow and blue is sitting back chilling doing nothing.

Suddenly once upon a time in turn 5, the Planta who has two dreadnoughts blocked away from center decides that it has nothing else to explore with. It discovers that Draco has no army but swimming in VP, so it decides to move in, breaking the alliance and becomes the traitor.

Then Draco becomes very mad because he treated Planta like his best friend where he would defend her when Orions attacks. He is so mad that he decides to throw everything in with all his 40 materials. Planta is extremely worry that Draco would be blitzing it even he gives up that battle by retreating, so it decides to do the same all-in-ing the Draco even at the cost of bankrupting a few hexes.

In between the disputes, Hydrans once again promises that he is an elephant with dignity and well-disciplined. He will not attack anyone unless someone hits him.

So the game goes on, Orions expanded from the center in all direction for sector 1 and 2. Luckily discovered some aliens and beat them while Draco and Planta almost going to throw each other chairs in between continuous battles. Hydrans still decide to sit back and research but saves some material for defense.

Draco and Planta contracted control over hexes as they decide to throw in more they could afford.

In turn 8, Orions buys the missiles with +2 computer. Then go onto equipping it on his dreadnoughts and starbases while not waging war over anyone. He then decides to start tilting all science towards money production.

Now, there comes turn 9. Hydrans will complete the track without any problem but still decides to not to attack anyone as none has attacked him. Planta suddenly wakes up from the non-stop money burning and counted VP, discovered that Orions is also nearing 2 research tracks completion and swimming in 2 vp discovery tiles. Now he decides to negociate peace with Draco and decides to gank on Orion. Draco accepted with rage. But then everything is too late. Orion gave up control on the center and goes onto bringing his missile dreadnoughts into Draco's aliens. He then goes onto building missile starbases in a chok point and spams monoliths behind it.

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Sounds familiar? I was the spectator and I did not hint anything but counted VPs during turn 5 after the GCDS occupation. It was something, in arbitary numbers again, like:

Black: 18vp from hexes + 4 vp from discovery and 4 reputation drawn out of 11 times, is just now on a strong economy because of the center occupation, i.e. average 15 production on each resources.
Green: 12 vp from hexes + 4 vp from discoery and 1 reputation drawn out of 2 times
Yellow: 18 vp from hexes and bonus and no reputations, on a pretty strong economy
Blue: 12 researchs done, 8 vp from hexes and 1 reputation drawn with spaces around him undiscovered, he discarded almost all aliens and decided not to come back because of too high chance for picking up aliens again.

Obviously, at turn 5, black was the VP leader but with little army and repelling power. This is the time when you should give a dead blow to Orion and he will be chased a bit. But then with a fail to aware the situation, Planta, Draco and Hydran broke the game.

Sounds familiar? I would dare to say quite some people play their games this way and then proceed to whine blah blah blah is overpowered (likely Orions and Missiles) and they needed variants.

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If you still do not understand, lets make this very easy. Forget about Eclipse, let's do Settlers. Now:

Green: 8VP
Red: 3VP
Yellow: 2VP

Yellow rolled a 7 but he decides to rob red. Red whines because green was winning and red should rob green. Red disagreed with arrogance. Now yellow is mad. VERY MAD. He luckily rolled a series of 7s and robbed red all the way. Now red is VERY MAD also. He decides to rob (rape) Yellow every time he rolled 7.

Green is actually a horrible player as he puts his cities around the dessert in the center of the map and some 2,3,12,11s. But thanks to red and yellow wasting their time, green wins miraculously and called "GG CLOSE GAME".

Now red and yellow complains that cities are imbalanced and now requires cities to be powered to collect 2 resources.

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HAHA, VERY FUNNY? Look back at your eclipse games before you are entitled to laugh at them!

After all, if one could do these, games are very much balance and, I would agree, it would become a moderate luck game somewhat close to Race for the Galaxy because everyone knows what they are doing.

#1. Do not take betrays too personally. They didn't burn down your house and rape your dog. It is just a game.

#2. Do not overcommit into anything especially battles. It is very common that if one overcommits, the defender has to burn warehouses also and king make others.

#3. Always count VP after 2 turns . Estimations would do (that is what I do). Hit the guy who is winning after weighting the costs. Arrange for ganks if necessary. Wonder why Plantas and Dracos are officially banned from 2er? Because there is no one else to gank them.

#4. Pay attention to others. Economy, techs, fleet positioning or even statements. This is not Solitare, this is a interactive game.

#5. Just like Imperial and Diplomacy , Patriotism will not win you the game.

#6. Missiles are never overpowered. Most likely You sat back wasting actions while they use their actions to gear up.

#7. If some of the players are ganking the VP leader, let them do it and do not disturb them. Being a faggot or not in later turns is another thing.



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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Any strategies for dealing with lack of Materials?

August 5, 2012, 8:25 pm
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by WakandaMan

There's been a lot of discussion lately about the amount of luck in the game, and one of the major factors is Hex draws. If you happen to be short on Money or Science though, there's always orbitals to fall back on.

Where I am struggling is what to do if you don't get ANY materials planets? You can mitigate it a little with white planets and diplomacy, but it doesn't help much.

Last nights game I had plenty of money and decent science, but virtually no materials at all- no planets and only got one through a white planet, so I was producing 3 per turn. Yeah you can trade out money, but that is inefficient at best.

Any thoughts on what strategy to take with no materials? You can't build fleets, can't build monoliths, can't build orbitals....and research only gets you so far since most research is ship related.
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