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Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Eridani: Strategies of contradiction

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by FinalAttack

Eridani are an interesting breed of alien. They have the following traits:
• 3 starting tech, Plasma cannons and -1 shield are useful straight away, the drives are not because by that time power is usually needed
• Lots of starting money (24? Correct me if I’m wrong here)
• 2 Less INF discs
So what is their strategy? Seriously I don’t know. I would really like to understand what the intention of this race is, but I just can’t.

Theory 1 - you have monies! Spend spend spend!:
The theory feels like it should be right it, close up though it just doesn’t make sense. 3:1 trade is really bad. You effectively only have 7 materials of anything other than money. Spending it on anything other than money is really inefficient.

Theory 2 – dreadnaught has +1 energy!!! Holy crap it’s the key to winning!!!!1
The +1 isn’t really a big deal, it allows you to add a plasma cannon without forcing you to buy a 6 energy power source. Rushing a dreadnaught has also been an idea bounced around. However the notion of “rushing” means you’ll probably have it one round earlier than other people.

Theory 3 – rush the dread to win
Ok. Lets rush a dreadnaught. You can have it out first round by burning all the money you have. Now you have a dreadnaught out one turn earlier and no planets :/
Ok. Lets rush a dreadnaught without being ridiculous and have it second round. More reasonable and something I will often do. However this is NOT a major advantage. You’ll at best probably be matching other people on the table with resources after your “rush”.
Here is the contradiction. Getting a use from your dreads takes actions: 1. Build 2. Upgrade 3. Move 4. Colonise (pending victory). 4 actions. Its only 2 to explore colonise a planet and everyone has more actions than you.

So having lots of money sucks!?!?
What really hurts about being Eridani is the inability to starve and draw back INF discs. As OTHER races with less money you can over spend money/turns (effectively spending future turns NOW) and draw back planets you don’t need. This ROCKS. It allows you to grab discovery tiles and draw back at effectively no turn cost. However, since Eridani have lots of money this isn’t allowed until you’ve used up your surplus :/ Bummer. Should I take a discovery disc only tile? It hurts a lot more as the Eridani if you do.

It’s all about the percentages
Really the big issue here is the Eridani are limited on actions, comparatively. Say, for example, I have 6 turns as a human player, but as Eridani I only have 4 turns. If I draw a REALLY bad tile, or make a bad decision that is a higher proportion of turns I’ve wasted. 1 turn wasted out of 4 is FAR worse than 1 turn wasted out of 6. There really is less wiggle room for bad luck as Eridani

Lets talk about tech
Advanced Robotics and Quantum Grid are great to offset your disadvantage. However I think 2 other tech can really make a difference: Imp. Hull and Adv. Econ.
Imp. Hull – ok great for everyone, but if you are rushing dreads, its paramount in keeping the odds in your favour so getting this early can be the difference between a dead dread and a successful mission.
Adv. Econ – You need more turns. This can be the way to balance the game in your favour. Your home world has it. If you are collecting other tiles around you that have it GREAT!
The issues are that if Adv. Econ or Imp Hull don’t come OUT EVER! It hurts.

Conclusions
Eridani with reduced actions, inspite of compensation, are just too easy to mess up. If you get bad luck on tile draws, tech draws and god forbid lose your first dread(like I have to a SINGLE alien), its really an uphill battle.

The rush strategy is contradicted by the 2 less INF discs, so is discarding explore tiles to get only high value sectors.

The only real strategy I see is sits back play well and don’t draw attention to yourself. Let war rage between your enemies around you, in the mean time hopefully you can kill an alien or two to get a few 3s or 4s from the bag. Then everyone else is worn out from killing each other hopefully you’ll have kept quite enough to sneak out of nowhere and steal the victory.

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: beginner's experiments

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by strackr

I played my first game of Eclipse last week. At some point of the game my fleet was wiped out by the oponent equipped with plasma missles (PM). I know that PM are powerful, but are they realy so strong, or was it just my mistake that I did not equipped my ships in some special "anti-PM" stuff?

I decided to investigate this matter.. and I wrote small "combat simulator". I simplified the problem, assuming that the attacking player uses only one ship and has only PM technology (and all base technologies of course). I also assumed that the defender uses the same ship type and has only base technologies. I realize that it is oversimplification.. but for now it should be sufficient.

So, if the attacker uses one interceptor gainst another defender's interceptor, then accoriding to my simulations the optimal ship configuration that would maximize probability that defender's ship will be destroyed is: 1 PM + 1 canon + 1 drive + 1 nuclear source. Then, the optimal defender's response would be to build an interceptor having: 1 canon + 1 drive + 1 nuclear cource + 1 hull. This way, the attacker would have ~44.6% chances to defeat the oponent. So.. not so much.

If we load PM on a cruiser.. then the optimal configuration would be: 2 PM + 1 canon + 1 computer + 1 drive + 1 nuclear power. Then the best defender's response would be: 1 canon + 1 computer + 1 drive + 1 nuclear source + 2 hulls. And this would allow the attacker to wipe out the defender with probability ~58.3% - not so bad.

But if we load PM on dreadnought, then the chances grow to ~78.2% - the attacker should use: 1 PM + 1 canon + 3 computers + 1 drive + 1 nuclear power + 1 hull and the defender should respond with: 1 canon + 1 computer + 1 drive + 1 nuclear power + 4 hulls. That is quite impressive..

Another interesting thing is that if attacker decides to use a plasma canon or an antimater canon instead of PM (if it would be his only technology, nothing more), then his chances of winning will never be greater than ~56%.

I think my next step will be to find out what is the optimal defense against PM (what are the best "anti-PM" technologies, and how to upgrade defender's ships)..

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: I have a serious problem with this game, please give me advice

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by bodybuilder

eclipse is my favorite game, but I can never win a game, I read a lot on the forum, however my friends who have not read the post on bgg, continue to win

this is frustrating, I seem to play well and then at the end I always lose. this morning, after the game I had 3 territories and my opponent had 9.

I think I know the theory but not knowing how to put into practice, it seems to me, at times, to do actions not very useful, and almost always have a few materials, science and money.

I never know when to wait or attack, I always try to take the territories opponents and every time I lose fights leaving empty even my territories.

-I do not know what to do if an opponent has many materials or much money or many sciences, how to stop it?
-I do not know whether it is worth to upgrade often, I happen to do it 3 times in one turn
-while exploring what are the hexagons to be discarded? I do not waste anything, even hexagons by 1 point with 1 cube orange, but during the game becomes difficult to withdraw the token from these hexes because there is a cube orange ..
-not ever build monoliths and orbital, because I prefer to build more spaceships, this is wrong? should build these even if they are not protected by spacecraft?

please give me some advice, I need to start winning

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: 3p balance / Eridani woes

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by ParticleMan

So, like quite a few people, I prefer to ban Planta & Draco from 3p. Played a 3p game on Vassal yesterday and here was the scenario:

Initial low techs: 2x Neutron Bomb, 1x Nanorobots, 1x Advanced Robotics, some number of orbitals. No Improved Hull.

Per the rules, choice order was opposite turn order. Last player chose Hydran. Then it was up to me. Since Planta was not available, I faced the choice of either picking Eridani, or knowing Hydran (then the best turtle race available) would get Advanced Robotics. Given that Hydran was picked first and the other turtle races were gone, I figured I had to go aggro in any case (either Orion, Terran or Eridani.) So either:

- face down a +1 disc Hydran as Terran or Orion with no IH, or
- face down normal Hydran as Eridani with a guaranteed +1 disc myself.

Chose Eridani. Grabbed the disc. Got stomped.

Of course it didn't help that the 1st player chose Terran, got an ungodly amount of materials early, then never opposed Hydran. Or that Hydran got his own Advanced Robotics on round 2 (which Terran also passed up.) I could safely say Hydran should never have won that game, that Terran's explosive start should have crushed him, and maybe I could have done a bit better as a result. Nevertheless, I came away with the following thoughts:

- Eridani really does suck
- Eridani might suck most in 3p
- Taking out Planta and Draco as options in 3p MAY cause some balancing issues I didn't factor in (I still think it's more balanced without them though, this was probably a worst-case scenario)
- 3p can go bad really fast unless all the players are experienced
- 3p is probably easiest to win as a turtle due to the above

Comments?

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Dreadnought is almost always the first ship you should build, heres why

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by bmeyer

This past week I wrote a battle simulator, but unlike others I have seen mine tries all possible ship part combinations to give the best combination of ship parts to defeat an enemy. Using this took I took a look at the best moves for the beginning of the game and concluded that a dreadnought is the ship you want to build at the start of the game. I wrote it all up including a ton of stats and numbers on a blog entry last night.

http://benjamin-meyer-home.blogspot.com/2012/08/dreadnought-...

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Deliberate Deficit Strategy

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by Bear85

Hello,

A strategy came to our gaming group pretty early on with Eclipse, and it seems to dominate most games, in that whoever does it best often wins. I'm sure it's nothing special, maybe people can discuss how they deal with it.

Basically the strategy is to deliberately go into deficit spending on your turn when you can, hit zero money, and use the cleanup phase to pull disks back from the board that you don't want. The ones you don't want is the other part of this strategy, those hexes with a what we call a 'present' (the 2 VP/random bonus). The empty hexes aside from the present are obviously best for this, but there are plenty of others too.

It gets to the point where if you can get 2 or 3 of those in a game, taking the bonus every time, while your opponent gets stuck with pulling ancients tiles, you get a big boost early, and just that edge can really tip the balance.

We thought about house ruling it so that you had to trade your other resources before pulling disks, but that might be too harsh and really destroy a player who needs to pull a disk in a time of urgent need, without destroying his other resource stocks.

Does anyone else find this dominates, or are we just having a run of bad luck with this dictating the gameplay? I'd love to hear any thoughts.

Thanks!

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: An Opening Strategy for the Eradani

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by prestonp

I came up with a strategy for the Eradani.

[url="http://prestonpoulter.com/2012/09/26/eclipse-board-game-strategy-eradini-dreadnaughts/"]Here's the link. [/url]

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: What race to choose

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by Axisplaya

I'm a beginner to this excellent game. I only played a dozen of games so far, most of them with 3 or 4 players.

So...


You're playing a game of Eclipse with unknown oponents that you just met.

What would be your 3 1st choices of alien or human race in a 3 players game ? Same question with 4 and 6 players.
Just to be clear, i mean what would you choose as the 1st player, then what would you choose as the 2nd player given that the 1st player took what would have been your 1st choice.
Example: 3 players, 1st choice is Orion, then 2nd choice will be Draco given that Orion has been chosen by 1st player and so on.

If you wish to explain why you made those choices, please be my guest !

For those who don't want to write a long post, you can copy/past this as your answer:


3 players :

1-...
2-...
3-...


4 players:

1-...
2-...
3-...


6 players:
1-...
2-...
3-...



Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Should Mechanema prioritise Fusion Source as their first tech?

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by Amaranth

I ask this because it seems to me that they can get constrained by power requirements pretty easily once they've added a Positron Computer to their ships.

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Discovery tiles value

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by Cube21

I have now played over 20 games of Eclipse, most games 4 players, but all 2-6 players variants tested.

Some of the developers said that 1VP for discovery is too low, and 2 is a bit too much and something 1.6 would be better, which is not possible though because scores are rounded.


Ancient ship parts are actually only tiles that make people think which side they should pick, thought for example axion computer almost always is used as a ship part.

-Cheapest tech? rather points, that tech is very hardly worth that 2VP.

-Some materials? maybe those values should be 1-2 units bigger, they would be more interesting. Of course there have been few situations that made these handy.

-Cruiser? worth 2VP? mostly not, but then again if you are low on materials..

Most games people end up with 4-8 points from discovery, and everyone except me always chooses points and ship parts rather than other rewards.


And lets say you find three tiles: chepest tech, cruiser, and 5 science. how is that better than 6VP?

How is in your games?

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Favorite openings for various races?

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by Mike_Evans

I know that people have described an opening strategy for Mechanema, where you build an early Dreadnought, then outfit it with 2 positron computers and an extra nuclear source. This is an excellent way to beat up ancients (or other players) early on. I think this is a pretty cool opening strategy, but only if you can get enough materials early on to make it happen in a timely manner.

What are people's favorite openings or early moves for the various races? Assume that you draw the hex types, resources, or technologies you need (such as an adjacent single ancient, for example) in order to maximize your opening, though you're welcome to post contingencies where appropriate.

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: What to do if you get no resource planets?

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by KingofTown

We played our 2nd game the other night and tried out the alien races. One of the players was the red alien race (Eridani I think) and spent his first few turns exploring as we all basically did. He explored 7 tiles and didn't find a single brown or white planet. By this time, there were no more places to explore.

How do you overcome this? If you were lacking other things, you could build orbitals to help you out...or even build ships to go take over other players brown planets...but only getting 2 building resources a turn makes it hard to build any sort of threat. Being alien makes the 3 to 1 trading pretty harsh as well.

We've yet to discard tiles from exploring. It feels like a waste of an action...but perhaps he should have used it in this case?

The Green alien race player just kept getting brown planets. He used all those resources to build orbitals and monoliths on all of his hexes with only a single point of entry to those without wormhole tech (even with, the only other entry point would have been just as hard to get through).

Having a lot of fun with this game so far!

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Super-powerful space stations.

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by dare978devil

One player upgraded his space stations twice, with -3 and -3 computers (2 of them), and 2 sets of missiles. He had just conquered the central hex, and placed 2 of these stations there. They were almost unbeatable! It meant he was rolling 8 dice, and hitting with anything over a 1. As it happens, he didn't roll a 1 so hit 8 times for 2 damage each time. Needless to say, my attacking fleet was obliterated.

I did have missiles on my two attacking cruisers, which fortunately both hit, destroying both of his stations. Effectively we obliterated each other. But he simply built two more stations on his next turn, whereas I could not possibly hope to replace my fleet that quickly. Other players tried to take the middle from him, but he bolstered his stations with high initiative missile-equiped Interceptors, and had sufficient 1st shot firepower to wipe out anything we threw at him.

The game ended with that player holding onto the center as no one could dislodge him from it.

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Ship builds

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by modsr

I've played a few games of Eclipse (Terran-only) and I find I tend to gravitate towards similar ship designs. Like getting a Plasma cannon on my interceptor and a plentiful helping of Improved hull all around plus eventually Plasma missiles. I'm a very competitive player and obviously want to optimize my ships as best I can.

I find I don't upgrade my power source or engine very often, but would definitely like to. I just can't seem to find the actions/resources to research power sources and engines and then upgrade them, possibly to several ship types. So I go for low-power ships.

Next game I will try to build a different kind of ship, preferrably with an upgraded engine (tech tiles permitting).

I guess what I'm looking for is tips on what kind of ship builds you find to be effective besides ones with Imp. hull and PM.

I know Dreadnoughts are the go-to ship in the beginning (since they are better against Ancients), but would it make sense to start aiming for higher mobility ships from the get-go and tackle Ancients with 2 Cruisers instead? My reasoning is I wouldn't need to upgrade Dreads at all (saving actions) and if indeed I'm getting a mobile fleet it would make sense to have 4 effective, harrassing ships rather than 2. Is upgrading just Interceptors and Cruisers a valid tactic?

Bear in mind I will be playing Terran-only games for the foreseeable future as new players are being introduced to the game.

Hope I made some sense.

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Last turn exploits?

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by pearlofdeath

My wife was talking to me this morning about our last game of eclips and how there seems to be a way to exploit the last turn.

since you don't need your minerals or science anymore after that last turn, there is no reason you couldn't stretch yourself thin and use every available influence disk you have and just trade away your science and minerals to pay for it. she thinks on the last turn you shouldn't be able to trade to pay for your actions like that.

she also though it would be kind of an exploit to say colonize a 3VP hex, knowing you wont be able to pay for it until the upkeep phase where you can take an influence disk off one of your 1vp hexes.

i told her i didn't really see how this was an issue or a real way to cheat to get extra VP's. since if there was a tie, you look at how many resources you have stored and that things like this were only happening because we were playing a 2 player game and had a lot of space on the board to expand.

does anyone else think she has a point? what are your thoughts on the last round, since you don't have to worry about funding for another turn?

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Draco Defense?

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by Hannibal Rex

Has anyone found a way to effectively use the Ancients to support your defense? It seems to me, that by the time another player is willing to attack you, Ancient ships will be a push-over for him.

Certainly, the Ancient(s) might get lucky and destroy one or two damaged ships. But has anyone found a particular strategy that lets you utilize the Ancients especially well?

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Human strategy and other questions

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by Forgon

For a summary, I'm still new to Eclipse, having played 1 game. Still, with the experience I got from it rised some questions. I search the topics to see if my questions would be answered but not all were, so here I go.

I saw that the common idea is that human are versatile... But how are they more than the others? Yes, they are more than planta and their less powerful ships, and they have a better trade. They also more more ship with one action, which is nice, but still.

Comparing them with meca (which seems to be less powerful than human if we read the topics here) or the draco, for example, how are they more versatile than them? Meca just get more construction and boosting on their ship, lower price. Does that make them less efficient on economy? Not so much, except for the trading (which is the same for everyone else). So where human will surely get outnumbered in military in a game against meca, their economy will not shine and make them compete with them (turn the tides, as we would say). "But they get more ship to move with one action" Nice bonus, but that doesn't make them stronger. It only cost less action to move your fleet. I don't know if that's enough to compensate. Draco on the other hand just get a better economy but can still fight as well as human.

Where they don't compete in military against some, they cannot outshine Draco or planta in turtling and economy. "That is the point of being versatile: you don't outshine everyone but you can do everything". Sure but... Then what are your strategies playing them (that is, with other races in play)? Because I don't know how to make the best of them.

Also, I saw that Orion were considered one of the best race in the game (some disagree but the point of the discussion isn't that). How are they so powerful? They only get a better ship to start with and better starting plans for your ships. After turn 2 those advantages can already be outclassed. Plus they get the worst trade. How to make the best of them? How are they so magnificent?

I think that's it for now. Thank you for your answers!

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: 1 vs 1 game. How do you stop Orion ?

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by Axisplaya

Well the title says it all. How can you stop Orion from winning in a 1 vs 1 game ?

We have baned Orion in 2 players games as a houserule, but since the official rules just indicate that Draco and Planta shouldn't be allowed in 2 players games, i guess we just haven't found out yet how to stop Orion.

If anyone can help me with this, i would apreciate.

Thanks.

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: Turtling With Hydran

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by Grickster

Process: To develop dual Exploration strategies in which you can effectively delay Combat with other players in a 4-player game, one strategy for each side a player will start on in relation to you (left or right).
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My favorite race in Eclipse is the Hydran Progress. Unfortunately, all of their racial abilities and starting resources considered, they are probably the weakest of the races in terms of military strength from the get-go. A popular strategy for them, then, is to turtle. After numerous plays resulting in losses to equally experienced friends, I can only say this about turtling: It is easier said than done, but is it really? Let’s take a look at our options in the worst case scenario: Your neighbor is playing Orion and he’s building right to you.

Your range of options will vary depending on which side of you the Orion player is sitting. Either way, you will be pressed to make a decision as the Orion player will attempt 2-3 Explore actions to connect with you. If he does anything else--including Researching Advanced Hull--then he is not an experienced player, and you can only give yourself so much credit if you win or place ahead of him. The reason I say this is simple: At the start of the game, he is significantly stronger than you. If he wants an easier fight than ancients, he’ll attempt a connection with you. Because let’s say that Advanced Hull comes up in the starting Technology, he skips Researching it on his first turn--a popular choice on this forum, it seems--and I get it instead. What am I going to Upgrade it to and eventually Build? Discovery Tiles aside (which I never plan on anyway), I don’t have the starting Money, Science or Materials as Hydran to compete with any other race on the first turn of the game. So, with that in mind, any smart Orion player will make the necessary moves to engage an adjacent Hydran on the first turn of the game. Any later and the odds may be enough in Hydran’s favor for him to expand and strengthen. Plus, any other player’s starting hex is enough incentive to invade their space, so why wouldn’t you ASAP on the first turn of the game?

The most favorable situation is if the Orion player is sitting to your right, because if he Explores a hex containing an Ancient in it (50% chance at game start), then you can effectively block him. This holds true, because the only way that he could explore from the Ancient hex, is if he sent enough ships into it to the point that one isn’t pinned. All of that takes too much time, and you will have blocked him off by then, Ancient hexes, discarded hexes, or not. Even if the Orion player explored the same hex sitting to your left, he will still be able to Explore his sector two and connect to you that way--you can expect early Combat when Orion is sitting to your left, but you can help prevent it from happening on Turn 1 and give yourself a chance to fight back on your subsequent turns.

The most unfavorable situation is if he Explores a sector one that has four or more adjacent wormholes, and no Ancients. This scenario is worse if he is to your right, because at that point, he will have another avenue to explore into your space and probably connect. When he is to your left, he already has that option, and all you can hope for is that one of the hexes (sector one or two) that are drawn between you two contains an Ancient, as it will allow you more time to build up before actually fighting him.

What To Do If Connection Is Imminent

If the Orion player uncovers a sector one with four or more adjacent wormholes and no Ancient, then there will be a connection. If the Orion player is sitting to your left and uncovers an Ancient hex, and orients it so that the wormhole will connect to your sector one, even if you block that connection, unless you get a specific hex (Capella Sector, #106), then he will still be able to get to you through his sector two. You should Explore your sector one first for several reasons. For one, you could uncover an Ancient hex and buy yourself time by making him have to go through that first. You could uncover the aforementioned Capella Sector and block him off entirely. Overall, you need to create a buffer between him and your starting hex. And even if a connection is formed, and you’re invaded and eventually taken over, remember that all the hexes you lose in Combat still produce for that Turn. So it’s very possible that you can make a comeback and reclaim that lost territory in the following Turn with those extra resources. It’s very possible that the Orion player might not have enough Colony Ships to start benefiting from your hex. The bottom line is that while Combat with other players is inevitable and that you might get into it earlier than is preferable, you need to adapt to the situation and increase your chances of dealing with it for the next Turn. This may involve losing your starting hex and coming back from the depths of a sector three. You probably won’t win in this case, but there are other players on the board to consider, and the balance of power can shift very quickly.

What To Do If Orion Draws An Ancient Hex
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And that is where I will leave off for now. I need to get to bed, but I was hoping to get a conversation started at the very least! I will edit/post more later.

Thread: Eclipse:: Strategy:: The Orion Hegemony vs. Hydra: a new player's opinion

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by kaneAAA

Hey! I've recently bought eclipse and have had a few games.....and I LOVE IT! ......like....Love it!

starting to wonder about the differences between races. I've played a couple of 1v1 games Orion vs Hydra...and I think that in this specific combination Orion has to play a rush game or Hydra will dominate.....Short-term, the military capacity of orion can push its way through to the galactic centre quite easily, and begin a military attack into hydra territory...but if orion doesn't keep pushing, the natural short-term advantage begins to wane.....the hydra from mid-to-long term have better ships and economy on account of their research capabilities (and trade rate), and this generally wins the battles. Therefore, the orion player has to always keep in mind that his natural advantage will turn against him, and he is a weaker mid-to-long term player..... I think in larger player games this won't necessarily be the same on account of alliances etc. but certainly I think this is a general point that holds true in 1v1 particularly.....

agree or disagree? would love some feedback!
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